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Author Topic: Advice for PbP GMs  (Read 4802 times)
brooksb6
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2006, 08:15:30 PM »

Just stumbled upon this thread....and as someone new to GMing this is incredibly usefull!  It should be stickied or at least bumped!
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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2006, 08:55:23 PM »

Your wish is my command.
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2007, 01:30:14 PM »

I'm changing the name of this thread and giving it a bump.

We're all a little older and wiser now. Anyone have any new advice to add for PbP GMs?
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Wraithshadow
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« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2007, 05:01:59 PM »

Hmm.. well, I don't know if I quite qualify as a good mentor, but let's see what I can do.

Every post is an essay.
This sounds bizarre on it's front, but I've found that I approach posts much like I would an essay for a class. One of the greatest strengths of the PbP medium over F2F is the fact that you can run a monologue or detailed description much longer than you can normally. If I was to say what I type, it'd probably leave me hoarse and my players asleep. Or deaf. Or both. At the same time, you'll almost be expected to type more than you'd say- a post of "Bob swings at the orc again," is going to be a dull read- and possibly come off as if you're really not interested in the game. Especially as a GM, this is important! You're describing the game world and you're pulling your players into it.

Allow me to give an example from my game. You could simply say, "You walk into the curiosity shop. Andrei greets you as he finishes lighting candles," Or you could say this:

Quote
(Griffin Marlique - City of Ghosts, Andrei's Curiosities, Malleus 7th, Cinten 604 AR, Twilight)

The small bell over the door rings as it's pushed open, yeilding fitfully as it hits the metal curl that sets the bell in motion. The place is old, darkened wood- there's as much cigar smoke as stain in the cause. Tables divided up into shelves form haphazard rows and corridors through the shop. The smell of incense- Andrei's idea for making the shop seem cozy- thickens the air, leaving it dark and muddied in fading light. By now the rain has started full force, and guttering lamplight tries to fill the store, gathered from dozens of small lamps arranged haphazardly among the merchandise on shelves and tables. For all that can be determined, some of the lamps might well be merchandise. The front of the store is filled with simple bric a brac, wooden and rope toys, old drawers set aside and filled with buttons, fake gems made of glue, and various similar things. As they move towards the counter in the center of the store things polymorph into something more valuable- tools, secondhand, toys of fur and cloth, clockwork toys, pocketwatches, bolts of cloth in unusual patterns, and sculptures made from porcelain and ivory. As one moves past to the back of the store, bookshelves line the walls, leaving space for strange unguents and components of dubious alchemical value, old copies of newsprint, and a half-dozen stuffed beasts- a bear, a falcon, a moorcat, a raccoon, a dragonfish, and what Andrei claims is the preserved foot of a Skorne warbeast.

The counter itself is wooden, with thick glass panes revealing all sorts of expensive items- bejeweled knives, jewelry, swords, a gauntlet, and small mechanikal components- again of dubious value. The man himself is moving about the store, an older fellow of uncertain heritage, perhaps Morrdh, perhaps something else, his hair is grey and ringed around his bald head, his eyes hidden behind thick glass spectacles (that are purely for show), a bulbous nose and a thick lantern jaw that remains all but free of a beard. He moves among the last few lanterns, lighting each in turn as he does so, lending a yellow cast to his pale skin. "Ah? Ah! Yes. Griffin. I will be with you in a moment. I expect you are here for business? Not, I think, for a mug of ale and old stories, which I shall keep as well as any other of my curiosities."

90% of the post serves no other use than to tell the player a whole lot of things he doesn't need to know- but at the same time it provides the flavor and description that brings the world alive. Plus, it'll get people to put as much effort into their replies as you do.

Now- on the opposite side, don't go on for eight pages about a swing of a sword. There is a point where your players' eyes will glaze over and nothing will get through. I personally strive for about three paragraphs, unless there's just not enough to work with.

Corrollaries to the above: Feel free to have your NPCs spout mini-monologues- if they're going to greet someone, have them also comment on the weather and make observations about the PC, not just say, "Hi how're you?" Pick out details in weapons, describe the lighting, smells, and sounds. If you write the same thing for two people at two different times, vary how you say it, don't just cut & paste.

Nothing is written in stone until you hit Post. Reread your posts, see how they sound, make sure you got everything you wanted to say. If you're halfway through a plot and you come up with a better way of doing things, feel free to change it- just so long as you aren't creating continuity problems. Always know how much of the plot thread is still loose, and feel free to manipulate it to make things more enjoyable. Just make sure it has an end, too- a lot of people I know are giving up on Lost because they're convinced the "It all has a reasonable explanation," thing is just so much hooey, and there won't be a real ending.

Intrigue is more fun than combat. Sort of a corollary to the essay thing- combat tends to involve short time segments where everyone's waiting for someone else to post. There's a lot of repetitive action, and especially in systems like d20, it can take seemingly forever to wrap up a big fight. Don't be afraid to have the occasional battle, but try to steer towards mysteries and intrigue. PbP is a much better medium for that than fighting things. People have time to stop and think, mull things over. They read and think, and get to use their minds.

More after I get home- I love these days at work where my job's to answer a silent phone.  Grin
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2007, 09:06:46 PM »

Quote
I don't know if I quite qualify as a good mentor, but let's see what I can do.

Experience does matter, but if you have some good things to add .... Nothing else matters.

Quote
Nothing is written in stone until you hit Post. Reread your posts, see how they sound, make sure you got everything you wanted to say. If you're halfway through a plot and you come up with a better way of doing things, feel free to change it- just so long as you aren't creating continuity problems. Always know how much of the plot thread is still loose, and feel free to manipulate it to make things more enjoyable. Just make sure it has an end, too- a lot of people I know are giving up on Lost because they're convinced the "It all has a reasonable explanation," thing is just so much hooey, and there won't be a real ending.

Intrigue is more fun than combat. Sort of a corollary to the essay thing- combat tends to involve short time segments where everyone's waiting for someone else to post. There's a lot of repetitive action, and especially in systems like d20, it can take seemingly forever to wrap up a big fight. Don't be afraid to have the occasional battle, but try to steer towards mysteries and intrigue. PbP is a much better medium for that than fighting things. People have time to stop and think, mull things over. They read and think, and get to use their minds.

Your first comment can be taken several ways, not just on a post bases as you meant it, but also in the grand picture of your game. Often times players will do things that are unexpected, in FTF you have a built in excuse for not making it a part of the story "I didn't have time to think on it", In PBP you do have the time. Try to incorporate the things that your players do unexpectedly into the story as you have it planned.

If they are on a spy mission, but select the wrong location, come up with something for them to find anyway, no matter how small. Maybe they find some background information on the bad guy, maybe they meet someone that will help them later in the adventure, but for now is just a man in a meeting that forgot his briefcase.

Instead of "You go there and find nothing" it become a sort of preface of things to come.

Your second point on intrigue is VERY IMPORTANT for new GM's to understand. This is not FTF gaming, an adventure that is mostly combat will die in this medium. Players get tired of spending time describing combat action after combat action after combat action.

In FTF combat is meant to be a bit of a filler until you reach the main baddie, the rest of the time is supposed to be in finding the secret weapon or the secret entrance to his lair, or in getting the villagers to safety. This is even more so in PBP. COMBAT TAKES FOREVER and gets boring rather quickly, intrigue takes forever and remains interesting the whole time.
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MBCE
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2007, 09:48:10 PM »

Again, I'm amazed at the advice I've just read.  Not only did you guys give me a better insight on how to make my PbP game better, but my FtF game as well. 

For teh most part, I'm new to GMing, prefering to play.  However, to give our usual FtF GM a break, I took over the reigns and am giving it a go.  The first few sessions were shot, but as I got more comfortable and put the time into setting up ideas instead of simply winging things, things got better.

For the PbP, I went ahead and mapped out a general outline of the game so I know how the adventure is going to begin and end.  Still need to work on some of the middle sections and how to get the players to the ending I want them to reach, but already, I've picked up a number of ideas from the players themsleves.

Adding their background to the story to help build the world really adds a good touch to the game.  All of that information should be used, in my case, the second adventure if I decide to continue the game.  For the first adventure, it's not that important other than to give the layers a chance to get to know their characters. 

That's something I think is very important to do.  Too often, people make up characters based on a concept of the finished product with no real idea of how they would react in various situations.  It leads to confusion and various contary actions.  Giving players a little time to get to know their characters also helps the GM learn how his players may react in any given situation.

So far, I've been blessed with some really imaginative players and at least for me, the world is coming fully realized.  It's a great way to help me plan a second adventure as well.
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2007, 08:46:23 PM »

Here is another topic

During the games, players drop out, or slow their posting rate to an .... unworkable .... pace.

When these things happen, its time to recruit. now the way that I handle intro'ing now players is to start a new thread with them and keep them separate from the "main group" for awhile.

I know that some like to just throw them in, I just do it different. There are a few important reasons that I do this.

1) It allows me to see the new player post and make sure they he is going to be with the game for the "long haul". Often times a player joins only to vanish after a few weeks, intro'ing the new character to the group and then having them lead could leave me holding the bag on playing a NPC until I can find a convenient place for dumping them. By having their own thread to start, if they leave, that thread dies and its a "no harm, no foul" situation with the main group

2) The new thread allows me to bring the new player up to speed on the most resent events in the game. It also allows me to show some events that are happening to the main group from a different angle.

How do other GM's get new playing into the mix?
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Jamfke
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2007, 04:30:24 PM »

Running a PbP game is a bit more challenging that a face-to-face game.  Things to consider:

Getting a game started takes an enormous amount of time to write up the initial hook and get everyone into the story.  It is recommended to have all the PCs start in the same opening scene, rather than separated and having to work themselves together.

The GM should do all the dice rolling.

Pacing is much slower, but once started, you need to keep it going.  Beware of pending the continuation of the story on a single player’s next post – it can prove not only a long wait, but the death of the game if they don’t post, don’t realize you are waiting for them, or drop out of the game without telling you.

Conversely, try to end every one of your posts with some sort of direct stimulus or obvious options for your players.  If they don’t know what to do next, they will simply wait for you to post something more – and if you’re also waiting for them, then things go nowhere and the game dies.

Run combat scenes as quickly as possible.  NPC all character actions for players who don’t post within 24 hours of each of your own combat round updates. 

Don’t try to run a game that focuses solely on combat.  PbP is much more suited to non-combat character interaction and development.

Be patient.  Be prepared to lose lots of players and re-recruit if keeping a game going means anything to you.

BZ


Digging deep into this thread, but I have to agree with everything BZ stated here. 

Play by Post is a wonderful thing for those of us without a face to face group anymore.  It can get  frustrating at times due to lag on the part of players and GMs (I know that I've lagged a bit in both arenas) but this is due to real life situations that cannot be helped in most cases.

Forget having each player roll initiative, play combat out cinematically (see bolded in above quote!)

It's all good!
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Eyeonthemountain
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« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2007, 02:13:25 AM »

*waves to mbcestelle*

I have not taken the plunge for PBP yet, but I must admit I am getting closer. Good ideas here
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reefwood
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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2007, 07:26:28 PM »

I've really enjoyed reading though this thread as I'm about to delve into PbP DMing.

One little tidbit of an idea I really found to be useful for developing PC interaction was thought up by a player in my table top game (who was also DMing a table top game that I was playing in) when we added an online element to continue game play in between live sessions.  He started a thread called "Fireside Chat" that was a place for in-character discussions outside of the adventure threads.  Essentially, it was a place for open-ended discussions that could've taken place while traveling down the road, sitting around a fire during watch, and so forth.  This allowed players to delve into topics that didn't necessarily have to do with the challenges at hand and helped flesh out characters into more well-rounded people (with attitudes, opinions, life goals, mannerisms, etc) as well as their relations to each other.  I really enjoyed having this thread in my game, and it was very free-flowing, so people could chime in or change the subject as they felt like it.  Plus, it was something that helped add to the game and didn't require any work by me!  And even though I didn't post in the thread as the DM, I would read it to learn more about their characters.
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MBCE
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2007, 08:42:58 PM »

I've really enjoyed reading though this thread as I'm about to delve into PbP DMing.

One little tidbit of an idea I really found to be useful for developing PC interaction was thought up by a player in my table top game (who was also DMing a table top game that I was playing in) when we added an online element to continue game play in between live sessions.  He started a thread called "Fireside Chat" that was a place for in-character discussions outside of the adventure threads.  Essentially, it was a place for open-ended discussions that could've taken place while traveling down the road, sitting around a fire during watch, and so forth.  This allowed players to delve into topics that didn't necessarily have to do with the challenges at hand and helped flesh out characters into more well-rounded people (with attitudes, opinions, life goals, mannerisms, etc) as well as their relations to each other.  I really enjoyed having this thread in my game, and it was very free-flowing, so people could chime in or change the subject as they felt like it.  Plus, it was something that helped add to the game and didn't require any work by me!  And even though I didn't post in the thread as the DM, I would read it to learn more about their characters.

Wow that sounds like a very interesting idea.  However, I 've got ot wonder if this would get out of hand.  If you ahve a good group of players, then it might not cross over, but so often I see players begin with a concept but it changes as they forget the root of their characters.  It would be fun to try though.  But what would you do during the slow parts of the main champaign?  they all sit around in the inn and do what?  All the conversation was done in the separate thread.
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reefwood
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2007, 10:55:33 AM »

Wow that sounds like a very interesting idea.  However, I 've got ot wonder if this would get out of hand.  If you ahve a good group of players, then it might not cross over, but so often I see players begin with a concept but it changes as they forget the root of their characters.  It would be fun to try though.  But what would you do during the slow parts of the main champaign?  they all sit around in the inn and do what?  All the conversation was done in the separate thread.

I'm not exactly sure how something like this could get out-of-hand, but then again, this thread was only active in my game for a few weeks and only used by 2 out of the 5 players, but again, the online aspect was only an aside to the table top sessions.

I'm starting up a short, one-shot adventure game to gain some experience at PbP DMing before delving into the larger game I want to run this fall, and I plan to include this type of Fireside Chat thread, so I guess I'll see how it goes over the course of a longer time period (the short game should last 2 to 3 months).  Also, I don't have much experience yet even as a player with strictly PbP games, so I'm not familiar with these slow parts that come up online.  However, I'm not too concerned about the players not having subjects to talk about with each other because the FC thread is more meant for topics that wouldn't normally come up during the current adventure / scenes, so I think they would still have things to chat about in the IC thread.

And I can certainly post about how it goes in a few months Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2007, 03:16:40 PM »

I think that this is a great idea. "Fireside Chats" thank you FDR will be a great way for characters to talk during this campaign. Because it is pre-made I could see it not having the little breaks that other games do. The only downside is that the characters don't use it and talk in the main game.
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« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2008, 12:32:42 PM »

Great thread.  One thing I've found useful is to have a header on every post.  I usually include:

Date/Time:
Location:
Characters:  (PCs and NPCs)
Direction: (what goal is being pursued? why are they in the location? Where are they travelling to?)

Keeping this in every post keeps you from getting 100 posts in and not having any idea what the time of day is anymore, what day it is, etc.  Some games may not care about some of these details as much as any other, but I like to track a calendar and have a clue what the time of day is.  In some cases, I've also used it to keep track of the environment/weather conditions.
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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2008, 01:11:38 PM »

Wow, what a wonderful thread. I am compelled to add my own thought while I'm visiting. Add "imho" wherever I sound dogmatic.

The most important thing in play-by-post is consistency. This is particularly important for the GM because while a game can continue after losing a player, the same cannot be said of the GM. You set a pace, and you keep it. Unless something extremely unexpected happens in real life, do not decrease your posting rate. This is a positive feedback loop. If you decrease your posting rate, your players will decrease theirs, and vice versa. Your mentality should be this: whatever happens, keep the posting schedule. Regardless of busy weeks, shitty weeks, moving weeks, new job weeks, fights-with-your-significant-other weeks etc. These are the normal tides of life. Deal with them. Dramatic upsets are another story.

"But I'm exhausted tonight and I don't have time to post!"

Here is where I disagree with a previous poster. Every post should not be an essay. Unless your post rate is lower than 4 per week (which is highly unadvisable to begin with), I don't think most people have the stamina to keep this up over a long period of time (i.e. months or years). When you are feeling particularly excited, write an awesome 1000 word post. You will have these days, and these posts will make your game awesome. Other days, you will be busy with RL and you simply don't have the time. Write a 20 word post. Trust me, it's much much better than nothing. These posts will keep your games alive.
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